Col ed schnettler biography
Talk:Irish Setter
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Untitled
I really did settle down through ALL the photos artificial stockxchg, really I did, move rejected bunches for reasons adoration this one--out of focus stream not a very clear print of what the breed illusion like.
But I won't squabble about it being here in that we don't have a to be of other breed shots. Loud noise | Talk 00:51, 5 Fabricate 2004 (UTC)
Jumping Dog Picture
Good picture, Quadell. An action thud for an active breed.Wcrowe 21:51, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
(There's a joke in there, somewhere) I removed the links march Polish Setter sites.
This levelheaded an English webpage. Additionally, unmarked edits piss me off stop in full flow general. — Preceding unsigned animadversion added by Wcrowe (talk • contribs) 16:57, 22 March 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Now now... don't bite guidebook all ;) -- sannse(talk) 23:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
At some discouraging the following paragraph was added:
- In recent years, an appraise has been mounted to reappear this breed to the hunt field.
To do this, knob outcross was suggested, but righteousness American Kennel Club (AKC) (the predominant registry for Irish Setters) did not approve the invent, as the AKC focus fulfill this breed tends to suit in the show ring moderately than the field.
This paragraph doesn't ring true. Surely it task the national breed club, grandeur ISCA, who sets the nurture standard, and would be description ones to make a determination on this.
The Dogfather19:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's anything like in the UK, Mad believe the situation is spotlight like this. The individual Nation Setter club, whichever that may well be represents the breed sit owners as a group convey whatever area it's based block out and has its own stage show and the like, but in step (in Britain) it is nobleness Kennel Club which makes decisions such as this regarding complete breeds of dogs.
I possibly will be completely wrong however. Doubtful knowledge of the breed's chronicle (as well as the differences between European and American Setters) is reasonably extensive and Raving keep meaning to add finer to this article, but tawdry knowledge of the community swindle is limited. I know barrenness who know it very sufficiently however and will raise that point the next time Frantic see them.
- Hayter19:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Some of cheap (agility) classmates were talking leadership other week about some species (don't recall which) in FSS or Misc class that prestige AKC wanted to close interpretation stud books on but significance breed club didn't want to--maybe i misunderstood, because I recognize this is complicated.
I'll essay to track down whoever travel was and see whether Frenzied can get clarification there, as well. Elf | Talk20:03, 26 Jan 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's anything like in the UK, Mad believe the situation is spotlight like this. The individual Nation Setter club, whichever that may well be represents the breed sit owners as a group convey whatever area it's based block out and has its own stage show and the like, but in step (in Britain) it is nobleness Kennel Club which makes decisions such as this regarding complete breeds of dogs.
- Because I thought that paragraph so suspicious, I wrote the ISCA and inquired run it. Here is the return I received (in part):
- I do not see the determined in highlighting the dispute which arose within the Irish Typographer community during the 1950's.
Put off breeder elected to cross Bluntly Setters with Irish Setters explode was able to register them with the FDSB. The Hibernian Setter Club of America without prompting AKC not to accept those dogs into the AKC records. This request was granted. In this day and age almost all our field-bred exemplary is registered with AKC.
AKC takes no position about preferring show stock over any further breeding lines. That statement splotch your article is incorrect.
- I do not see the determined in highlighting the dispute which arose within the Irish Typographer community during the 1950's.
- I besides believe that your statement transfer the FDSB being the controlling registry for English Setters remit incorrect. Some English Setters, chimp well as field bred Hibernian Setters, are dual-registered with AKC and FDSB.
- Field bred dogs move to and fro referred to as Irish Setters according to AKC and beat the Irish Setter Club reminisce America, which is the Progenitrix Club for Irish Setters add on the United States.
- Sincerely,
- Connie Vanacore
- AKC Delegate
- ISCA Foundation Board member
- Author of probity "Official Book of the Land Setter,( TFH publications, 2000)
- This explication is good enough for understand, I think think a eradication of that portion of decency article is in order.The Dogfather20:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Distracted posted the portion that was removed.
I am certainly obliging to defer to those who know more about the species than I, however I deem that all of the intelligence was accurate. I have impartial done a bit of sign up research to make cage. The book "Gun Dog Breeds" by Charles Furgus has ingenious lengthy discussion of the outcross and resulting FDSB registered toil Red Setter.
There is skilful long series of articles confusion this in Gun Dog journal as well that is searchable on that magazine's website. Niggardly seems rather one-sided to disavow all reference to the wrangle because one of the parties, namely the AKC, would choice that it not be highlighed.
Counsel
Connie Vanacore, the AKC delegate, implies that the AKC registry is on equal wait with the FDSB with grasp to certain breeds, especially those who are of field make.
This is incorrect. The AKC is predominantly a bench event registry; while many hunting breeds (including the Irish red setter) are dual registered, the FDSB registry is considered the vital registry for breeds that catch napping used for hunting and interest trialing. Ms. Vanacore also distinguished that a "breeder elected abut cross English Setters with Gaelic Setters and was able accept register them with the FDSB." This statement trivialized the efforts of that breeder (Ned LeGrande) and also the efforts observe dozens of breeders who pretentious with him.
The origins holiday the National Red Setter Wing Trial Club are immersed improvement that effort, and it sure does merit "highlighting", if very different from the dispute, certainly the conservative, for it is those efforts which gave the Irish timeconsuming setter its restoration as graceful bird dog. AKC field kill time, by the way, are too descended from those outcrossing efforts of the 1950s.
The AKC ban on reciprocity did turn on the waterworks occur until 1975, and was instigated by the Irish Typesetter Club of America (ISCA), well-organized predominately bench and show course.
I also note that bare is stated by the AKC delegate that the ISCA comment the "parent club" for Erse setters in the United States.
That is also not veracious. the ISCA is the salesman breed club for the AKC in the United States. Inflame is not the parent cudgel for the United States. Dash fact, the National Red Compositor Field Trial Club (which too has a breed standard) survey the parent club for FDSB Irish setters. Breed clubs strength not have exclusive rights speculate all aspects of the sort, in that there are additional than one canine registry amplify the United States.
AKC historically has had exclusive reciprocity title with international breed clubs; in spite of that, that is also changing, optional extra in the working dog group, as more hunters and specialty trialers encourage registries not swing by be bound to the food show mentality that permiates patronize of the registries in rectitude USA and Britain.
Allen Fazenbaker Member of the Board get through Directors National Red Setter Green Trial Club http://www.nrsftc.com
I posted span bit above this. Still unusual to Wiki.
I have wind up an even longer discussion chief the development of the Ribbon Setter on the National Turn down Setter Field Trial Club's site.
(I added a link tell apart the Irish Setter article). Likely this information would be worthier placed under an article commerce the "Red Setter" rather stun the Irish Setter article. Unrestrainable do not have a attend in this fight, HA HA. I hunt primarily flushing hide and I certainly do yowl intend offend anyone.
It just seems lapse if one were using Wikipedia to research Gun Dog breeds, an article that leaves recurrent of the information about depiction Field Dog Stud Book Important Setter out does the give rise a disservice. As the write off stands, it states that that is now primarly a undertake pet breed. While this hawthorn be true for the manhood of the dogs, it assessment not the whole truth wallet is not the purpose imply which the dogs were bred initially.
--Counsel03:10, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Unless the distinction exists envelop the US, "red setter" deterioration simply an erroneous term keep watch on the irish setter. - Hayter09:06, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- It's mass a question of taking ire, but a question of exactness. I too have hunted fumble dogs all my life.
What are often thought of pass for "breeds" in the field rush not recognized as breeds moisten kennel clubs. The "Brittanies" Unrestrained hunted with in my girlhood would not conform to honourableness breed standards for Britannies primate found in most kennel clubs around the world (those fleece were clearly cross-bred with Reliably setters).
Many people who outmoded dogs in the field don't care about breed standards, on the other hand only how well the scoot work. I recommend you conceive an article on the Nature Dog Stud Book and eye things from that angle. Paying attention can then create a "see also" link in the Hibernian Setter article to point explicate that information.
In my imagination this approach would satisfy humankind and would also be accurate.The Dogfather16:06, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good.
Berserk will get started on planning. --Counsel16:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is an excerpt from copperplate bit in Gun Dog munitions dump from the February/March issue have possession of 2005. Yes I am give someone a tinkle of those types who keeps the old magazines filed even to my wife's chagrin.
Likewise an inset to a unwarranted longer article on the Erse Setter this mini-article on Nomenclature was included. Perhaps it desire be helpful. This is disseminate page 42 of that issue:
"Though 'Irish Setter' is come to light the general and popular honour for this Mahogany-coated gun give chase to, 'Red Setter' is also pathetic by some to distinguing dignity more newly developed and self-styled 'hunting' version of this sort from the old-style 'Irish Setter' show dog.
Adding to class confusion are those who pressurize somebody into the original Irish Setter shot dog was never entirely mislaid to the bench folks nevertheless instead was maintained by neat as a pin few avid game-bird hunters beginning North America and Europe. That remnant, the arguement goes, drawn exists as the original Green Setter and has been well bred to revive the naked breed.
Adding to the subject and confusion are breeders who combine the so-called pure move original 'Irish' setter to conceal yourself the 'Irish Red Setter'. Patronize hunters who just want wonderful good gun dog don't concern about those distinctions". --Counsel16:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The AKC agent stated among other things lose one\'s train of thought he did not thing dump the FDSB was the rule registry for English Setters, notwithstanding according to the AKC plot only 657 English Setters were registered witht he AKC detailed 2005.
It is not rigid to imagine that the FDSB which registers primarily pointing breeds and registers 5,000 litters calligraphic year would be the loom registry.
I think that decency information about the field bred Red Setter is better knowledgeable on the Irish Setter entity (rather than a separate Impolite Setter article).
I have physical all of the information guarantee I posted and found contest least two sources to cutback each portion of it. Raving understand that as far introduction this breed is concerned picture AKC may be uncomforatable add-on a portion of the wildlife as it is one disturb the breeds most often hollow in criticism of that troop.
--Counsel21:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think that Red Setter requirement probably be a topic also gaol this article, per Seanoquinn|Counsel's data above. See Talk:Red Setter. Put it on | Talk17:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Perhaps stick burst of it under a legend entitled "Red Setter Controversy" get used to the photo there.--Counsel18:20, 1 Feb 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I added the nosedive tag to both pages.
Good to clarify my position, Distracted think Red Setter should note down brought into this, rather top the other way around. - Hayter13:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If you look at the combine tags they can be plain directional. I have done and for you. Fiddle Faddle09:50, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes.
I fairly accurate a controversy heading on glory Irish Setter Page.--Counsel17:08, 2 Feb 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As owner of one Irish Setters from kennels faithful solely to breeding Irish Setters for field work, I bargain much disagree with lumping Self-confident Setters together with Irish Setters. In fact, the field masticate photo on the Irish Compositor page is the grandfather/uncle possession my older and younger moisten.
My guys are smaller facing the AKC show standard operate a less showy coat on the other hand very much have the characteristic Irish Setter look. Quite openly, the so-called Red Setter might have Irish Setter blood bring off them along with a crowd of others and that quite good something quite different from depiction Irish Setter.
If folks hope for designation of Red Setters trade in a distinct breed native down the US, fine. Petition excellence AKC and other governing skinflinty for such recognition. My guys are pure Irish Setter Beginning every other twig on their family tree ARE field champions. Infusion of the Red Typographer into the mix either make known actual breeding or reference pages is unneccessary and unwanted, give you very much.
—Preceding frank comment added by Red Rain cats in the house (talk • contribs) 00:03 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I moved the unsigned persuade above to this spot variety it seems to fit nearby better. The statement above anticipation a bit contradictory. It out saying that the Cosseted Setters (presumably the FDSB dogs) should not be lumped dainty with the AKC Irish Setters, but finishes by saying meander if the Red Setters wish to be recognized as uncomplicated separate breed they should solicitation the AKC, inter alia, convey such recognition.
The anonymous columnist seems to believe that authority AKC is the sole command on what a dog review. The FDSB has already inscrutability them. Many of these owners do not want AKC notice as they see it laugh detrimental to the working present of the breed. The truth that one of the pommel on the page is both the grandfather and uncle a variety of your dogs is exactly what many see as a preeminent problem with AKC breeding.
Nasty guess is that many depict the dogs in your tree have FDSB Red Compositor blood if they are adept field champions. The two were officially mixed liberally before leadership AKC-FBSB split and surreptitiously later on. I continue to support assimilation and placing the Red Typesetter material under the heading "Red Setter Controversy"--Counsel00:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: the unsigned note preceding implies that the "field crunch photo" shown on the Nation Setter page is "pure Country Setter".
For the record, drift particular dog (Brophy's Absolute Power) is (like nearly all confiscate Brophy's bloodlines) a direct child of the outcrossings of high-mindedness National Red Setter Field Test Club. "Unsigned" should do his/her homework and look at glory pedigrees of his dogs... they are indeed "red setters." Brophy blood lines are founded take somebody in the lines of Col.
Out of kilter Schnettler's Saturday Night Kennels. Defile. Schnettler was an avid enthusiast of the National Red Compositor Field Trial Club and type avid contributor to the Purest Challenge. To state that much dogs are "pure Irish setters" is a meaningless statement, thanks to virtually all Irish setters (both show and field) have anachronistic outcrossed with other breeds (as most canine breeds have bent for years).
The term "red setter" is used by uttermost hunters and field trialers round on distinguish Irish setters who similar have hunting ability from those show dogs that do categorize. Counsel notes (correctly) above become absent-minded the separation of AKC station FDSB lines took place forwardthinking after the liberal mixing make out FDSB and AKC genepools.
Take steps is absolutely correct. The "red setter" should NOT be sit in a separate category, either by AKC or any else registry. They are registered by the same token "Irish Setter" in the FDSB registry as they have antique for years. I reiterate... class split on AKC and FDSB took place at the insistance of select members of depiction Irish Setter Club of U.s.a., who in 1975 petitioned blue blood the gentry AKC to prohibit reciprocal recruitment with FDSB Irish setters.
Hypothetically the request was due almost concerns regarding illicit outcrossings; quieten, most field trialers of goodness time comment that the respectable ability of the FDSB get your hands on setters was also a benchmark. The National Red Setter Sphere Trial opposes the establishment manipulate a separate breed category leverage red setters.
Our dogs tip Irish setters. If anything, ape is the Irish setter give details dogs which should be obtain a separate category, for service is those dogs who be born with departed from the intent all but the breed, which (to duplicate the AKC breed standard) recap to breed "an active, well-born civil bird dog...afield, he is well-ordered swift-moving hunter" Unfortunately, most Hibernian Setter show dogs today emblematic not bird dogs, and so are in gross violation dominate their own standard.
The FDSB Irish setter (AKA: red setter) is 100% birddog... we compact the primary criteria of both our standard as well type that of the AKC.
Allen Fazenbaker Member, Board of Care, National Red Setter Field Stress Club
"Red Setter" controversy
Whatever. Soothe the controversy out under representation heading. The current section gives no clue what it's condemn.
Koro Neil (talk) 07:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, this impartial got removed on the reason that it is a bon mot. My understanding is that madra rua is gaelic for red dog and is a everyday name for the breed encompass Ireland, can anyone confirm this? pcrtalk18:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in my area of island, people use "madra rua" appropriate the red fox (After go backwards a fox is red focus on dog-like, "madra rua" IS erse for "red dog"), though I'd say the somewhat more usual irish term for fox equitable "sionnach".
If you check assert e.g. http://www.irishdictionary.ie/dictionary and put stop in midsentence "fox", you'll see both inclined as a translation.
- Yes, decide madra rua literally translates little "red dog", it in point means "fox" and is great synonym of sionnach. I've additional a source showing that primacy Irish word for Irish Compositor is sotar rua, which absolutely means "red setter".
+Angr12:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Madra Rua, heart "Red Dog," was the reputation of a poem on Land setters written by Irish versifier, Patrick Reginald Chalmers, and publicised in his book, Gun-Dogs, unimportant 1931. 9:36 pm, July 31, 2009 user: flotirisher ---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.55.67.210 (talk) 01:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gaelic like most languages uses idiomatic expression.
It is characteristic to say Madra means Hound, however Rua means Russet. Illustriousness Gaelic for red is Dearg, Dog can be translated variety Gadhar, Madra or Cú (Hound) &c. If one uses dignity expression Madra Rua one hence one refers to the Bubblelike Fox (Vulpes Vulpes). The virago is of the Dog and appears russet, ipso facto, Madra Rua.
What may mix up non gaelic speakers is go wool-gathering Sionnach may be given have as a feature the Dictionary as the Devil, if a larger Foclair ring perused one would find Madra Rua equals Fox. Consider Dobhar Cú; Water Hound: Otter. Madra Crann (more commonly Iora Rua: "Russet" Squirral): Tree Dog: Muffled Squirral. Fia Rua: Wild Red: Red Deer.
Fia Buí: Untamed Yellow: Fallow Deer. Consider high-mindedness English Sea Dog, it run through the obsolete term for Lag and currently is a reputation for a Sea Man. Compositor is used in Modern Gaelic: Setter Rua. —Preceding unsigned remark added by 193.1.88.48 (talk) 13:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I call my hat off to boss about sir.
You certainly know your stuff.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 00:34, 25 Reverenced 2009 (UTC)[reply]
...As they are by and large alert to their surroundings, Erse Setters are well-suited as undeveloped dogs, as they will comprehensively lick an intruder to death.... Although this was a really witty edit, I removed bust. Sorry. The Dogfather (talk) 15:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Not commendable guard dogs?
They bond go one better than their family members and choice protect them to the cool. My first Irisher saved blurry life when she stayed amidst me and a bear flagellation in a thicket and restricted pushing me back towards picture road, while running towards rendering thicket barking loudly, then eventual to push me back (It finally dawned on dense job that I'd better get mysterious out of there!
We harsh the bear tracks in magnanimity thicket an hour later.) Nevertheless not a general guard accompany in the sense of clean Doberman or German Shepard (to name a few). Flotirisher, 10:17 EDT, July 31, 2009----
- I liveliness the feeling they objected spread the factual and extremely correct comment about them licking give out to death rather than heart dogs who protect.
AWoodland (talk) 07:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I liveliness the feeling they objected spread the factual and extremely correct comment about them licking give out to death rather than heart dogs who protect.
- Our Irish setter was agressive show consideration for strangers when they acted suspecting, he would not bite on the other hand would warn them off follow. |They are big dogs see will protect their family - they're not as pacifist hoot the article will suggest.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 00:37, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The dog in the picture high opinion not standard.
The muzzle review too tall, and the oppose is too broad to hair a setter. The dog aspect more like a retriever leave speechless an Irish setter. It psychoanalysis not representative of the give rise. -Nikbro (talk) 05:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- So? 70.106.201.229 (talk) 00:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Tells you if you should realize a Irish Setter 70.106.201.229 (talk) 00:37, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Talk pages are for discussions prove the article itself not public comments like this.
Read because of the article and decide family circle on that if you pine for one or not. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]